In one of the most interesting conversations we've had on the podcast, I'm joined by clinical psychologist Dr. Jacob Ham to explore what really helps people work with - and be with - trauma.

We began with Dr. Ham's background and what drew him to trauma work before I ask him how he "conceptualizes" different kinds of traumatic experiences. Dr. Ham responded to this question in a way I didn't expect, that broke the pattern of a typical podcast conversation, and took us in a much more interesting direction.

We talked about cultivating a felt sense of connection, empathy as a way in to relationship, and the value of anger. Dr. Ham shared about his own process taking risks as a clinician, using parts work, moving away from the "false idol" of cognizing, and finding a unique way in for each individual.

About our Guest: Dr. Jacob Ham is a clinical psychologist, Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at Mount Sinai, and the Director of the Center for Complex Trauma. He's the therapist former podcast guest Stephanie Foo wrote about in her wonderful book What My Bones Know.

Key Topics:
0:00 Introduction
2:30 Jacob’s background
5:20 A felt sense of connection vs. the "false idol" of cognizing
11:50 A monastic, medical, and artistic approach
14:25 Knowing our intentions, and feeling others’ pain as a therapist
18:05 Surrendering to overwhelming grief
22:50 Love, vulnerability, and authenticity
29:35 The value of anger, the energy it demands, and navigating it with humility
36:25 Presence, and taking risks as a clinician
42:20 How Jacob does parts work, and finding what works with each individual
48:15 Staring at the finger that’s pointing at the moon
51:30 Does a good therapist need to have experienced trauma?
55:00 Honoring our inner protectors, surrendering to pain, and knowing it won’t last forever
59:10 Shaping others’ ability to help you, and processing trauma without professional help
1:03:15 Tipping points and surrender
1:07:25 Recap


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Who Am I: I'm Forrest, the co-author of Resilient (https://amzn.to/3iXLerD) and host of the Being Well Podcast (https://apple.co/38ufGG0). I'm making videos focused on simplifying psychology, mental health, and personal growth.

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